Hubs Lacking Written Content
81writers are made rather than born
Hubpages, "Where's the Beef?
That’s right, hub articles that are…articles. Call me old fashioned, but I want to see some substantial text when I open a hub to learn something.
But it seems more and more articles are being buried in advertisements, not only Adsence, but long lists of Amazon and Ebay products, among others I can’t remember. Then the articles are peppered with videos and links and photos appearing all over the place. The poor eye, desperately looking for the “beef;” meaty paragraphs containing compound sentences and continuity from the opening paragraph to the summation, twitches in dismay.
I don’t mean hubbers should write a book, or even a short story; at best, we can only whet a reader‘s appetite about many of the complex subjects we tackle. We all know reader’s attention span is limited, especially when they are surfing the web for information they need, rather than reading for entertainment. But I am sure of one thing, in the way that commercial TV can be offensive to viewers, calling for regular use of the “mute” button, when a reader is deluged with so much “anomalous propagation” on a hub article that he thinks he’s happened onto an open tin of stale spam, he loses interest in the article. Or if he feels that he needs to hang on to his wallet as he tries to find substance, navigating around a whole labyrinth of ads he can click, he will soon cancel you out of his busy life for good - it‘s too easy.
I honestly don’t do this to make money, much as I wish it was easy to do so, I’m certainly not rich on a state pension. And part of today’s criticism is because I am a little baffled by all the enhancements that are available today to download and decorate articles, so I limit myself to Adsence. But as a journalist for 20 years and having published a few books, I do have the rudiments of how to produce a literate and readable article: one that entertains and informs within its limits and, as I said earlier, one that contains a small story that might stimulate the reader’s appetite for a more in-depth study of the subject. (And have him so happy with your magisterial effort, he clicks on a few ads as well).
There are so many really amazing writers on Hubpages. And only a few, really, that I think would be better doing something else altogether, but the latter seem to be on the increase and it's getting harder to seperate the wheat from the chaff, as it were..
In broad terms, I think a hub article - in most cases - should consist of about 800 to 1200 words, divided into several paragraphs. Some subjects will require more words - such as first person stories, for example, and some less - perhaps those with substantial photo or art work. But as a rough guide, 800 to 1200 seems about right.
There are many writers who do a good, workmanlike job, even though they are not “gifted,” and born with that certain élan that all great writers have. One facet of approaching this happy state is to be able to write - and write; revise - and revise. How many hubbers fully revise their articles several times, and I don’t just mean with the pc spell and grammar check? And how many will read a hub, realise it is just not right, ditch the thing and start over? And how many return to their articles, days, weeks or months later to update, add, subtract and polish? Top writers on Hubpages do all this and more- constantly.
Finally, you young - or beginning - aspirants towards some skill with the quill, sadly have a huge disadvantage in today’s world. Much of your communication and learning is acheived electronically, with the computer, texting, and the 200-channel television. Mine was done before any of this was widely available - with good books, and I read four of them per week and have continued to do so all my life.
To write better you will have to read books, not just rely on the internet, although, if you have the time to look around Hubpages and other like sites, you will get an idea of what the more popular writers are doing (and I don’t just mean chicks with a sexy profile picture, publishing hubs full of skimpily dressed other sexy chicks, nice as they are for a few minutes diversion). In regard to that, I think Hubpages might think about NOT allowing profile pictures of the writer; then the work would really stand for itself! Of course, with my homely fizz, I would say that, wouldn't I!?
Look at the hubbers who have been publishing for a while and have a few hundred articles on the board with a score in the high nineties and quite a few followers. See what they are doing and see how they write. What is it that attracts people to their site? You need to do something similar.
Also, help stop the government closing libraries by using yours' regularly, along with the charity book shops like Oxfam, to get book to read and source material for your articles. We can’t copy everything from Wikipedia, drat it!
I suppose it's stating the obvious to say the above is my opinion only and may not be worth a lot. I would appreciate any comments, perhaps pointing out something I am missing about the whole article experience on Hubpages and how I might better myself.
Good luck Bob as Diogenes.
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Hi again, Austinstar: I just commented on your paen to the Pope (he, he). You certainly don't need any advice from me re your hub size, and certainly none on the breadth of your intellect. I will be following you now.
Thanks for comment on my hub...Bob
Austinstar...ps. It's easy to see you are an avid reader by the power and facility of your prose. It's sure true, if you want to write you need to read. Bob
Hi Bob, it's true that there are many hubs on here that have minimal and inaccurate content. I've even come across hubs which I'm certain have been re-written from other articles using some kind of computer programme. Fortunately these quickly sink without trace on the search engines, although they hang around on Hubpages search for considerably longer.
Happily, your articles are always well-written and a pleasure to read!
As you know I just write and not a professional like but even I am astounded at some of them. I am glad somebody speaks up and points it out.
Call me an old prune but one hub really shocked me. There were racial remarks and f and s words repeatedly. When I commented on it I received a sharp reply contracting me. One was Kraut OK I let that go but -- because he was French he was an a...hole. If that isn't racial I don't know what is. Anyway, quite frankly I don't want and like to read things like that.
Constructive critic on hubs that could be improved in accordance with your standards may have positive results. Reading this hub does not enable me to identify my own shortcomings as a hubber. You should know it is not easy to evaluate your own writings. You are very welcome to criticize my hubs and lift me up to your standards. I do agree with you – all hubs are not enjoyable to read. Fortunately we have the privilege to read what we like and to ignore the rest. Your hubs – visible thoughts - impress me, therefore I read you. Thanks for this one too. Voted UP!
Hi Amanda: I guess as things get bigger, there’s so much of everything, good and bad. I really hesitate to write this sort of article, as I think some people think, rightly, “Who is this know-all?” or I am in error with my synopsis of the situation…but if it means I hear from you, it’s all worth it! Bob x
HH, you old prune! You may not be a professional, but you sure are prolific and your hubs are getting lots of attention. Yes, I think one should be very careful with ‘blue words, maybe there’s a place for some when used to amplify humour…? Well HH…bloody Krauts and Froggies..not to mention, Spics, Beaners and Coons…what can one expect! Bob
Well, Martie C., I don’t think this criticism applied to you anyway, from what I have read of your hubs…if I was to criticise you at all, I might say, hey, come on, write more, your readers are avidly waiting…Bob
:) You had me worried, Sir! Thanks for the compliment.
Hello, Bob, you got to translate Spics, Beaners and Coons. I don't know them. hahaha but I mean it.
I'm fully with you on this diogenes. I think part of the problem with substandard content relates to the ease at which it can be published. In times past, to get any written matter before the public eye required going through several quality control measures. However online publishing requires everyone be there own editor, proof reader and judge of suitable quality. In other words, it is the time one is willing to dedicate to perfection that is often neglected with online works. A first or second draft is rarely publish worthy. Perfect copy takes time and patience - a lacking commodity in our instant society.
bob, another excellent hub, I agree with your views, I use a mix of methods, my hubs (beleive it or not) are around 800-1200 words, and I try as best I can to edit them. Not an easy task for me, but I try. You are also right in pointing out that a lot of hubs are too short. I would very much love if hubpages itself would have a minumum word count, say for anything beyond a poem. this would be best for hubapges as a whole, but it is just my view.
I noticed early on that HubPages has a bit of a problem with the "pictures of hot chix" hubs. I was drawn to this site because it is a writing community that can turn a profit (a small one, but still something) so when I saw these articles getting attention, I cant deny that I was a little peeved. But thankfully none of my articles have suffered because of their existence, and there is a truly great community of writer's here, quietly navigating the poor grammar of the internet. But you're absolutely right about advertising and articles without substance. It reminds me of those ads that show up on TV when you're watching your favorite show. You know, the ones that show up at the bottom, telling you to buy pizza. It's bad enough that commercials are as frequent as they are, but now we have to see them during our shows? Lame.
I am glad to have stumbled across your hub. I started here hoping to make money on the side while tweaking my writing. Unfortunately I am about to give the money part of it up and just focus on the writing. Please feel free to critique my work. I am always interested to hear how I am doing. I think it is hard for the newer writers to focus on productive writing when the image of publish fast and furious is encouraged. Thank you for sharing this food for thought hub. I have enjoyed reading it and will keep it in mind in my future writing.
Proof reading is a vital component of any published hub. I read through my hubs carefully and tinker with them until i feel they are error free. We all have a certain ability wrestling with the complexities of the English language and these skills can be enhanced via this medium. Constructive criticism is in short supply and in most cases fawned upon. I feel that as one doesn't know the hubber personally, discretion seems the wisest choice. Great advice. Cheers
I recently watched the videos from the HubCamp in SF - they're in the Learning Center. It was stated that hubs should be about 250 to 800 words, as I recall. I thought 250 was a bit brief, but who am I to question the experts.
Unlike you, I have no pension - all my income is from my writing online... so I do include the Amazon ads though I make a lot more with AdSense.
Rather than aim for 'scholarly long articles' I try for 'helpful easily readable' articles. Trying to reach John Q. Public.
In general I agree, although I have some hubs that have less writing, some more. I must confess though when reading hubs I actually like large areas of text broken up by images/ videos etc. I just find it easier to read that way.
I think when it comes to hubs aesthetics are fairly important. Also, a lot of my hubs are about teeth and I think it's useful to be able to illustrate things with pictures and even video. Anyway, nice hub, I have rated it up.
diogenes~I agree with your assessment. In my opinion, too many article on HubPages seem filled with wasted words.Yet there are some amazing gems that keep me reading. Parrster's comment is right on target. I also think there is a shift in how people take in information. While we still live in a word based world, the integration of visuals, be they photos or videos, attract a certain type of audience and captures their attention in a way words do not.
Parrster...that sums it up perfectly. Of course, competition is its own leveler and as more and more gets published, might we hope the standard rises as well...Bob
Hi Rebecca. Yes I suppose that might take care of the problem...of course, we have two audiences: other hubbers and the GP looking for info. It's quite a problem really Bob
Hi MT Dremer. Yes, I have had a look at the hot chicks hubs, too. But there's something annoying in that it's relatively easy to find a source like that and shove 'em on a hub, often with no text at all. Maybe the boss should address it, but live and live and it won't sink the ship...Bob
Hi and welcome tipoague. OK, here I go, food-for-thought is hyphenated Hahaha...Well, you did say!! Just kidding, I will follow you our of interest I don't feel qualified to criticise any individual hubbers...Bob (I'd have to charge 'em Ha)
hi attemptedhumor. Well and skilfully put. Proof reading is SO important and it's so obvious many people only do it sporadically; no use relying on the spellcheck to sort it all out. Many spelling and grammar mistakes - that are obvious mistakes and not because the writer's Engish is limited - look so unprofessional and can ruin an otherwise interesting hub... Anyone who has submitted manuscripts know that editors throw such rubbish in the basket without reading another word.Bob
LindJM. If it's working for you, don't change a thing. I realize this advice is very generalized and subjective...Bob
Hi Thefont: Yes, as I said, hubs with lots of photos and art - and I should have added "graphics" - don't require so much text - a picture being worth a thousand words as the Chinese dentists say! Bob
Wildris. I think that about pictures capturing interest and attention has always been true. My main objection was all the ads and perhaps videos, too. A carefully chosen photo, etc., adorns and adds to any text. And we are so many disparate souls on here! I mean, Amanda Severn's art hubs are captivating, for example. It's rare, but most of you who have replied are the ones I would consider need the advice the least!
Much respect. This hub is on point. I thought I was reading an editorial by a very seasoned journalist. You also answered your own question, mentioning the dilemma between writing with passion or promoting relentlessly for the money. Anyway, yours is some of the best writing I have had a chance to read.
I was introduced to Hubpages from my sister who thought it was an excellent way to share my academic knowledge and experiences. I had also considered writing on my travels from a personal viewpoint. Get to point and I do mean that with pun; The younger generation scan a webpage as quickly as a visitor spend 6 seconds looking at each painting in gallery. They are looking for key information and if relevant want quick information to absorb more before moving on. I have been tweaking my first Hubpage all day and in frustration temporarily given up. I thought the length was the issue, as too lack of credible sources, instead faced with more reasons for not to be published. And further investigation to find answers I discover many very short (if not brief) hubs out there, not to mention bad written ones or incorrect and often long exhausting gossip. May be I need a sleep and rest a day or two before I consider other avenues?
Hello Diogenes:
I have always subscribed to the idea that writing is a passion, not a profession. However, if in the process of being passionate, one earns a few bucks here and there... then so much the better.
Your post acurately captured my feelings about HubPages, being more for the passionate than for the greedy. But I suppose this is demoracy at work....never was a big fan of that concept anywhere else but the political/governmental realm.
Sullen91: Thank you for the interest and very nice comment: I will try to live up to it. Bob
Yes, yes and yes, Leo Scott. Perhaps there's no right way, only this way and that way...sounds like life...Bob
Hi A. Villarasa: Perhaps it's a good thing we are not rewarded like a Rooney or a Beckham, otherwise the experience would be impossible for many as all the top writers would be competing herein. It's easy for me to be sanguine about money being secondary, etc., because I am retired on a pension and whereas it would be nice to have a few more of the toys, I don't really need them and won't prostitute what little skill I might have to get them...Bob
Hi guys: With what might be a final comment from me on this article, I wonder if writers also defeat what they are aiming for, if making money is the goal. If you "take the reader to the cinema" with tons of videos, don't you run the risk he may be well entertained and too busy - and have used more time than he thought - too filled and fulfilled to take much notice of your ads? Just speculating...Bob
Personally, I think you make an excellent point. I'm still pretty new to the hubs stuff, but I've enjoyed writing for most of my life. For myself, I don't write to get money, nor am I even particularly interested in reaching a wide audience. I simply have a passion for it, and have only just stumbled onto HubPages; which I tend to view as an oppurtunity to put my perspectives and beliefs out there for potential criticism.
The word count isn't an element I really concern myself with... I write, and until I go back to review and revise, what comes from my hands is what you get.
Anyhow, regarding this essay in its entirety, my comment can best be summed up as: Well Said!
I am about to ask you a favor... ihope you don't mind, on my lastest hub (one which I am curretnly working on) I am going to put this on my link list, provided it is okay with you.
Great advice! Many of my Hubs are well around 800-1200 words! Word count is vitally important when creating a Hub and one has to balance media with the text.
I agree with all you have written here.
I would add that, although photos and graphics can enhance many hubs, others would best be left on their own merits. I am reminded of the first music video ever played on MTV, "Video Killed The Radio Star". When the words are accompanied by visuals the reader (or viewer) connects one with the other, stifling the individual's imagination and mental imagery and greatly limiting the audience participation. Because of this, visuals that "nearly" match the text do more harm than good.
Because most of my hubs are poetry I am particularly wary of including art or photos.
Oh! And I am very glad you mentioned proofreading one's work. I am constantly put-off by mistyped words and other blatantly sloppy mistakes that ruin otherwise enjoyable hubs. If the writer hasn't the time or pride of craftsmanship to offer a polished effort, I resent having been invited to read it. I would be very disappionted in myself if I allowed slovenly or inferior work to represent me.
CP
I forget the exact words, and I'm not in a position to go sleuthing for them at the moment, but this brings to mind something clever I read in the book On Writing Well. It referred to the writer making the reader feel that "all is well at them helm" referring to unity, clarity, content and whatnot (if I remember correctly) lest the reader wander away. Little is well at the helm of many Hubs, I've notIced. There's nothing wrong with making cash for valid work/ writing, but some folks seem to have a little trouble with the "valid work" part.
I found this little poem by Hopwood for you...
We had rigged the nursery sofa, by the grace of the powers that be,
To sail like Nelson’s frigates, all ready for after tea,
And I was to be look-out man, for I’m much too old to steer,
While Peggy lay aft as helmsman, for she will be five next year.
We weighed, by the nursery fender, our bows to the cheerful glow
Of logs, from an old three-decker that had lived long years ago.
And “What do you see?” cried the helmsman, for so begins our game,
Then I shaded my eyes, as she told me, and peered through the rainbow flame.
But maybe the light was fickle, for though I tried my best,
I saw but a ship that battled on the surge of a world’s unrest.
“You’re saying it wrong,” said the helmsman, who knows it line for line,
And she edged along to the fo’c’sle and slipped her hand in mine.
Then “Look again” she pleaded, so I looked as I was bid,
And I knew that the veil was lifted where the heart of things lies hid,
For I saw why love must conquer by faith through suffering,
And I heard the Songs of Service that the old ships loved to sing.
And I watched in breathless wonder, for I dared not break the spell,
Till the picture flickered and faded as the dying embers fell,
Then I turned to look at the helmsman, and lo! she had sped amain,
To carry the news to dreamland, that a blind man saw again.
Absolutely adorable. A tender moment from the "poet laureate".
Though....it's probably easier to read aloud prior to three vodkas. My endearing audience giggled at my thick lips and wondered what the heck inspired this reading. Lest I be asked to explain further, I blamed the vodka.
G'day, Jamie. Those are lips to love, not giggle at. While I've got you, though, and talking about three vodkas, or similar, may I apologise for what may have been intemperate remarks on your latest hub last night. I believe calling you "babe" may have been pushing the envelope a little! Oh, well, it too shall pass...Bob
haha, no worries : )
Bob look, look! I'm a hubnugget wannabe! hehe
http://hubpages.com/hub/We-Three-Kings-of-HubNugge
The first one under Business and Employment. Yippee!
My hand is shaking trying to find the mouse to rush off and find out what sort of grave danger, or heights of pleasure has you transfixed, Jamie. Thanks...I think...for letting me know...Bob
These are all excellent tips.
Do you know, I am embarrassed to say it but I just realised that I was not even following you. For some reason I thought I already was a follower but then I thought to myself, that I have never really read one of your articles while I do my "weekly, read hubs by followers routine".
Any way, I am following you now, so all is well with the world. :)
Honestly, I truly appreciate you stopping by and making your valuable comments on my hub.
It really encourages me to do better.
I am of course guilty of flooding most hubs with pictures but that is majorly due to, my annoying habit of getting carried away with writing. I mean, just read this comment, 3 paragraphs later, I have still not completed what I had to say... :/
Any way, I find that most readers would very quickly hop away from my article if they were to realise that it is about 3 A4 size paper long... :/
So I post the pictures to attract the segments who might be interested by a picture and stay and actually read what I have written.
I feel it is so important for me to know that people have actually read through my hub rather than going... "Hmm... So this one is long eh? SKIP!" :P
Oh and I do not write on hubpages for any profit, except to feed the soul.
No ebay, no adsense, just stuff that floats as various ponderings in my head. :)
Your hubs are fine and all worth reading. Thank you for the interest and kind comments Bob
Quality over quantity has always been my motto and I apply it to my Hubpages experience. I'm not saying that I'm the best (I know better), but I certainly hope that the effort I put into my pieces shows when people read them. I would never feel good about myself if I was just putting up pictures of hot gals or guys in order to grab attention. I want people to like my material because they genuinely think it's worth their time, not because I tossed in an eye pleasing photograph.
Thank you for writing such a great hub!
Hi diogenes
I enjoyed this read. Even though my background is the crass world of advertising, whereas yours is the far more noble realm of the Fourth Estate ;-), I agree with all the points you make here.
None more so than the need to write and revise, and rotate that until you've got something that actually says what you want it to say, to people who haven't read it - as distinct from being clear to yourself, the writer, simply because it's already familiar to you.
To the Step 1 process - 'write, revise, and rotate', I'd also add "rest, revisit, review' - and then repeat step 1.
You're not just looking for typos and literals, you're also looking for meaning, style and nuance. It's called 'crafting'. (Of course, I know you know this, I'm just ranting a bit here for anyone else who may scroll through these comments...).
I do have a bit of thing about copy / article length. I think the determiner should be "How few words does this piece demand, in order to grab attention, communicate the 'beef', resolve and conclude?" Sometimes, at least in my case, that can be many more than 500 - 1200.
Anyway, rambling again...thanks for your post.
Thanks for input Rusty and writeronline. It seems my thinking may be a tad old fashioned in some of the aspects discussed in the hub. Writing online IS different from editorial in newspapers, etc., I am adapting slowly...Bob
well said i have written a book recently it's called INFIDELITY it was published in 09
Congratulations, Marieu and good luck with your writing and publishing...Bob
Well, Amen.
Per hub length, I suppose number of words may be of a lower priority for me than a full, satisfying arc. But that usually requires 800-1200 words. :-)
There are hubs with hot chix on HP? Haven't seen any - not that I've looked. Assume they've all been flagged!
Ink in your veins, huh? So few of us left. I should have known before I read your profile, you come from newspapers. One thousand words a day - on a deadline - is a great discipline for your writing skills.
I'm fairly new here, but I guess my biggest concern is how many hubs do seem to come straight from Wikipedia or some source the writer doesn't even bother to reference. How can any writer produce five hubs a day on diverse topics right off the top of their head? And no analysis, opinion or point of view. After all the years of objective reporting - I'm enjoying writing about what I think!
Glad I found another former member of the Fourth Estate.
Hello,
I'm happy to read this hub. I can't seem to write in the 750 word range, and am baffled by all the techno stuff that detracts from the writing. But it seems people don't have the attention spans for more than a minute or two.
Hello Jean: Yes, I wrote this hub a while ago and it seems I wasn't entirely right as more and more hubs are relying on visual aids: pics, videos and graphics. I plod on writing articles, 'cause it's all I know and I'm too old to change
Bob
Well, Bob, at least we have the attention spans to read! It is hard to keep up with all the changes.
Hi :)
Only just noticed this one :)
Hub Pages do seem to recommend that we use photos, videos, etc ~ and I really do like good illustrations. (A pictures is worth thousand words, as they say :) )
I remember reading a hub, which reminded us that, while our writing could only be in black and while, with no choice of font, the pictures, Amazon links, etc, etc, were out only way of brightening and decorating the page.
These additions are certainly good for breaking up blocks of text.
Hi Trish. Yes, but your articles are so professional and polished. I was really speaking of people like the many (dropping now) who were publishing hubs with photos of gorgeous women with no editorial at all hardly. Now we are getting a rash of hubbers who publish a few lines of Haiku with a brief explanation which is often a mini bio.
As I said on a hub of yours yesterday, you give just too much in one article and might consider splitting them up.
Who am I too judge, anyway, a lousy hack with a 10 year old car and no bacon for breakfast.
Take care sweetie
Bob
God knows what clicks they are expecting, yet fellow hubbers greet these random thought like they are snippets from the Doomsday Book!
Hi Bob :)
Thanks :)
I either can't get start with my writing, or I can't stop :)
Yes, I do recall seeing a lot of hubs, containing just a series of photos of models. I could never quite understand those.
I am a bit bewildered as to where as clicks come from, or why??? I very rarely get any sales from Amazon and I get the impression that this is true for most people, so their items are mostly for decoration, it seems.
Austinstar Level 7 Commenter 19 months ago
Excellent tips for hubbers here. I do try to write at least 600 words per hub, sometimes I make it, sometimes not. 800-1200 words is a great goal and I have a few that meet that number. I know I will do better when I retire in four more years and I have more time to devote to writing, so I'm just practicing now.
I have tried the Amazon ads and after one year have made exactly zero dollars from it, so I will not use any in the future unless I am actually doing a book review.
Adsense has paid me a few times and I am happy with getting some of the ad revenue, but I am happier still just to have a good place like hubpages to write on. I like the interaction between people that can actually read and write.
I love the funny writers like shadesbreath and Stan Fletcher. It takes talent to write funny stuff. I love some of the poets too, especially ralwus. But most of all, I like the ability to get feedback and give encouragement to writers. It's an art that I hope we humans don't lose to "technology".